Comments on: The Problem With Measuring Time Spent on a Web Site http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html Internet Marketing News Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:00:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Peelbacks | Written By All Of Us | A Slack Barshinger Blog http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-50413 Peelbacks | Written By All Of Us | A Slack Barshinger Blog Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:44:22 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-50413 [...] found one on Marketing Pilgrim which is also neat. It’s been up there for a while so take your time on [...] [...] found one on Marketing Pilgrim which is also neat. It’s been up there for a while so take your time on [...]

]]> By: An effective online ad? | Written By All Of Us | A Slack Barshinger Blog http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-47990 An effective online ad? | Written By All Of Us | A Slack Barshinger Blog Tue, 20 May 2008 21:21:17 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-47990 [...] out the ad in the upper right hand corner: click here. It’s called a PagePeel, Peel-Down, or “dog ear” ad. It might be old news to me, [...] [...] out the ad in the upper right hand corner: click here. It’s called a PagePeel, Peel-Down, or “dog ear” ad. It might be old news to me, [...]

]]> By: Rules Of Engagement: Time Spent And New Metrics - Gaming Under Construction http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-46476 Rules Of Engagement: Time Spent And New Metrics - Gaming Under Construction Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:45:31 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-46476 [...] tabbed browsing and online multitasking means people can frequently spend hours on a site without actually looking [...] [...] tabbed browsing and online multitasking means people can frequently spend hours on a site without actually looking [...]

]]> By: Laurent Nicolas http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-30885 Laurent Nicolas Tue, 21 Aug 2007 14:38:52 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-30885 Vince, I used to be in charge of developing meters for NetValue and then NetRatings, so I think I can answer your question. Users activity is only counted when there is mouse/keyboard activity. So, it is possible to measure time spent very efficiently, using: - users activity - browser visibility - network activity, etc. A "content" (I don't want to use "page") gets credit when it is *visible* on a computer that *someone is actually using*. All the issues mentioned (tabbed browsing, coffee break, word document window hiding the browser) are taken into account. I'm not allowed to tell more about the NetRatings meter, but I can provide with more details about alenty's site-centric technology that gets the same quality as user-centric meters... Vince,

I used to be in charge of developing meters for NetValue and then NetRatings, so I think I can answer your question.
Users activity is only counted when there is mouse/keyboard activity.
So, it is possible to measure time spent very efficiently, using:
- users activity
- browser visibility
- network activity, etc.

A “content” (I don’t want to use “page”) gets credit when it is *visible* on a computer that *someone is actually using*.

All the issues mentioned (tabbed browsing, coffee break, word document window hiding the browser) are taken into account.

I’m not allowed to tell more about the NetRatings meter, but I can provide with more details about alenty’s site-centric technology that gets the same quality as user-centric meters…

]]> By: Vince http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-30875 Vince Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:26:59 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-30875 I was going to add to the question raised by Carson Coots: sites employing AJAX, Streaming, Applications, Gaming, will typically have users engaged for more than 30 minutes with no page refresh. Can the stats deal with this? Thanks I was going to add to the question raised by Carson Coots:
sites employing AJAX, Streaming, Applications, Gaming, will typically have users engaged for more than 30 minutes with no page refresh. Can the stats deal with this?
Thanks

]]> By: Nielsen//NetRatings Drops Page Views as Ad Metric at Catalyst Search Matters Search Marketing Blog http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-29593 Nielsen//NetRatings Drops Page Views as Ad Metric at Catalyst Search Matters Search Marketing Blog Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:30:58 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-29593 [...] Courtesy of our friends at Marketing Pilgrim and Yahoo News, Nielsen//Netratings is foregoing the use of page views as a measure of web site engagement in favor of tracking how much time users spend at the web sites they visit. This new metric, accounting for both the amount of user sessions at a website, as well as the average amount of time per session, will be called ‘Total Minutes’. [...] [...] Courtesy of our friends at Marketing Pilgrim and Yahoo News, Nielsen//Netratings is foregoing the use of page views as a measure of web site engagement in favor of tracking how much time users spend at the web sites they visit. This new metric, accounting for both the amount of user sessions at a website, as well as the average amount of time per session, will be called ‘Total Minutes’. [...]

]]> By: Carson Coots http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-29531 Carson Coots Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:39:21 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-29531 I know quite a few people who don't even know about tabs yet. Because of tabs, I can view a site for days at a time without actually viewing it for more than a minute. There should be a maximum inactive time cut-off worked into the measurement to account for tabs. Even on a blog with 10 posts on one page, I will click referenced links to investigate topics... and usually follow a rabbit hole from there. 5-10 minutes of inactivity on the original site is a good indication that I have moved on. But then there are flash sites with no page refresh... and AJAX also, so who knows. And that hacked webcam notion makes me paranoid. I know quite a few people who don’t even know about tabs yet. Because of tabs, I can view a site for days at a time without actually viewing it for more than a minute. There should be a maximum inactive time cut-off worked into the measurement to account for tabs. Even on a blog with 10 posts on one page, I will click referenced links to investigate topics… and usually follow a rabbit hole from there. 5-10 minutes of inactivity on the original site is a good indication that I have moved on. But then there are flash sites with no page refresh… and AJAX also, so who knows. And that hacked webcam notion makes me paranoid.

]]> By: Daniel R http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-29153 Daniel R Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:00:03 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-29153 On a different note, does anyone know the rate of users using tabbed browsing? I know plenty of folks who have FireFox or the new IE but never use tabbed browsing. On a different note, does anyone know the rate of users using tabbed browsing? I know plenty of folks who have FireFox or the new IE but never use tabbed browsing.

]]> By: Scott http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-29150 Scott Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:03:08 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-29150 Hi all - Great conversation. Here are some more clarifications: 1) For multi-tabbed browsers, we only credit the browser that is in focus (e.g., in the forefront). So if someone is visiting sites through multiple tabs, only one receives credit. If the whole browser is not in focus (such as when an IM, Microsoft Office, etc is in focus), no browser tabs are credited with time spent. Even with multiple monitors, only one application is in focus because your keyboard and mouse actions need to know where to be directed. 2) If a panelist is inactive for more than 30 minutes, we dial back the time spent for the last page or application viewed back to 1 minute. 3) We are not saying time spent is the sole metric for comparing traffic volume across sites. We still report on page views and we also report on sessions which provides info on the frequency of visitation. But while we'd say Unique Audience is still the best comparison across sites, we feel Time Spent is now the best comparison of traffic volume across sites since Page Views are less relevant for sites employing AJAX, Streaming, Applications, Gaming, etc. Best regards, Scott Hi all -
Great conversation. Here are some more clarifications:

1) For multi-tabbed browsers, we only credit the browser that is in focus (e.g., in the forefront). So if someone is visiting sites through multiple tabs, only one receives credit. If the whole browser is not in focus (such as when an IM, Microsoft Office, etc is in focus), no browser tabs are credited with time spent.

Even with multiple monitors, only one application is in focus because your keyboard and mouse actions need to know where to be directed.

2) If a panelist is inactive for more than 30 minutes, we dial back the time spent for the last page or application viewed back to 1 minute.

3) We are not saying time spent is the sole metric for comparing traffic volume across sites. We still report on page views and we also report on sessions which provides info on the frequency of visitation. But while we’d say Unique Audience is still the best comparison across sites, we feel Time Spent is now the best comparison of traffic volume across sites since Page Views are less relevant for sites employing AJAX, Streaming, Applications, Gaming, etc.

Best regards,
Scott

]]> By: SuezanneC Baskerville http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-29140 SuezanneC Baskerville Mon, 16 Jul 2007 06:55:51 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-29140 I leave tabs open for months. Somebody's gonna get some really good scores with a metric based on the time a page is open. I leave tabs open for months. Somebody’s gonna get some really good scores with a metric based on the time a page is open.

]]> By: » Time spent metric doesn’t work for blogs, page views are still relevant A View from the Isle: Social Media, Blogging, Tech, and Opinion from Tris Hussey http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-29038 » Time spent metric doesn’t work for blogs, page views are still relevant A View from the Isle: Social Media, Blogging, Tech, and Opinion from Tris Hussey Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:42:50 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-29038 [...] To take the problem further, Andy Beal notes that tabbed browsing throws a wrench into the works.  Like Andy I usually have a bunch of tabs open in Firefox.  Right now it’s eight.  I usually keep them open all day … and if I don’t close Firefox or reboot, even longer.  So did I really spend two days on GigaOm?  Of course not, and a little analysis can scrub out the outliers. [...] [...] To take the problem further, Andy Beal notes that tabbed browsing throws a wrench into the works.  Like Andy I usually have a bunch of tabs open in Firefox.  Right now it’s eight.  I usually keep them open all day … and if I don’t close Firefox or reboot, even longer.  So did I really spend two days on GigaOm?  Of course not, and a little analysis can scrub out the outliers. [...]

]]> By: dockarl http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-29003 dockarl Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:43:10 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-29003 Real Pageview time should follow a normal (gaussian, or bell curve, distribution). In science we all the time strip out observations that sit significantly outside the normal curve - it's called removing outliers. doc Real Pageview time should follow a normal (gaussian, or bell curve, distribution). In science we all the time strip out observations that sit significantly outside the normal curve – it’s called removing outliers.

doc

]]> By: zhaiduo http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-28991 zhaiduo Thu, 12 Jul 2007 06:28:32 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-28991 It is hard to measure if it's not a real time web application. It is hard to measure if it’s not a real time web application.

]]> By: Andy Beal http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-28982 Andy Beal Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:38:44 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-28982 I guess with all of its flaws, there's really not a better way of tracking this kind of stuff - unless we hack into everyone's web cam and watch them. ;-) Thanks all for your thoughts. I guess with all of its flaws, there’s really not a better way of tracking this kind of stuff – unless we hack into everyone’s web cam and watch them. ;-)

Thanks all for your thoughts.

]]> By: links for 2007-07-11 | The Marketing Technology Blog http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-28970 links for 2007-07-11 | The Marketing Technology Blog Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:20:44 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-28970 [...] The Problem With Measuring Time Spent on a Web Site | Marketing Pilgrim Nielsen/NetRatings is going to dump page views as an official measurement of web site popularity and instead start measuring the total time spent by visitors on a web site. (tags: stats time traffic nielsen netratings popular) [...] [...] The Problem With Measuring Time Spent on a Web Site | Marketing Pilgrim Nielsen/NetRatings is going to dump page views as an official measurement of web site popularity and instead start measuring the total time spent by visitors on a web site. (tags: stats time traffic nielsen netratings popular) [...]

]]> By: Jay http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-28966 Jay Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:08:39 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-28966 Unfortunately, defining a universal "engagement metric" (sounds like what Nielsen/NetRatings trying to do?) is like finding the holy grail. So while we all are trying to crack the code on how to best measure engagement, Compete created an important sister metric a few months back called "Attention" (freely available on Compete.com). The Attention metric considers total time we collectively spend online and determines what percentage of that total time was spent on a given site. For example: If MySpace has Attention of 12%, it translates to: Of all time spent online by all U.S. internet users, 12% was spent on MySpace. You can also interpret the 12% as "the average internet user in the U.S. spends 12% of their online time on MySpace". Since "Attention" is based on time, logically the more time we spend on a site, the more attention we give it. We think of Attention as finite - a pie-chart - so the sites that are increasing in Attention over time are performing well along this metric. We think true Engagement on the other hand is more of a spectrum that requires attitudinal inputs. The idea of a "universal" engagement is nice, but in practice it should generally be specific to a firm or product. What constitutes engagement for one product may be very different to even its competitors, let alone firms in other industries. At Compete, our view is that marketers need universal measures in order to put their own performance into context - relative to rivals, peers, or anyone else they want to compare themselves to. While we don't present Attention as the king of all metrics, and certainly not as a one-size-fits-all metrics, we see it as an additional piece of the puzzle, and a step in the right direction. @Andy: Compete accounts for tabbed browsing by paying close attention to the sequence of pages being viewed. The window/tab/page in focus gets the time credit. So if there are multiple tabs open, only the page open gets credit. If there is more than 30 minutes of inactivity, time is stopped. Sounds like Nielsen does the same. Unfortunately, defining a universal “engagement metric” (sounds like what Nielsen/NetRatings trying to do?) is like finding the holy grail. So while we all are trying to crack the code on how to best measure engagement, Compete created an important sister metric a few months back called “Attention” (freely available on Compete.com).

The Attention metric considers total time we collectively spend online and determines what percentage of that total time was spent on a given site. For example: If MySpace has Attention of 12%, it translates to: Of all time spent online by all U.S. internet users, 12% was spent on MySpace. You can also interpret the 12% as “the average internet user in the U.S. spends 12% of their online time on MySpace”.

Since “Attention” is based on time, logically the more time we spend on a site, the more attention we give it. We think of Attention as finite – a pie-chart – so the sites that are increasing in Attention over time are performing well along this metric.

We think true Engagement on the other hand is more of a spectrum that requires attitudinal inputs. The idea of a “universal” engagement is nice, but in practice it should generally be specific to a firm or product. What constitutes engagement for one product may be very different to even its competitors, let alone firms in other industries.

At Compete, our view is that marketers need universal measures in order to put their own performance into context – relative to rivals, peers, or anyone else they want to compare themselves to. While we don’t present Attention as the king of all metrics, and certainly not as a one-size-fits-all metrics, we see it as an additional piece of the puzzle, and a step in the right direction.

@Andy: Compete accounts for tabbed browsing by paying close attention to the sequence of pages being viewed. The window/tab/page in focus gets the time credit. So if there are multiple tabs open, only the page open gets credit. If there is more than 30 minutes of inactivity, time is stopped. Sounds like Nielsen does the same.

]]> By: Webmaster Money http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-28959 Webmaster Money Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:13:58 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-28959 There is a place for new method of counting visitors. And the one who will do it first will be winner. There is a place for new method of counting visitors. And the one who will do it first will be winner.

]]> By: Fitness guy http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-28956 Fitness guy Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:29:12 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-28956 What happened to Nielsen sending me a dollar to tell them what TV shows i'm watching? I've got a paypal account...Show me the money:) What happened to Nielsen sending me a dollar to tell them what TV shows i’m watching? I’ve got a paypal account…Show me the money:)

]]> By: Robert Gorell http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-28953 Robert Gorell Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:22:37 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-28953 Bushido, ~75-100 million active Firefox users, and you still think that "most popular...in most cases" is good enough to cut it for a ranking metric? It's been a decade since I took statistics, but that seems like a pretty mean deviation ;) No matter how long we pick at this, the Web isn't meant for comparative metrics. Bushido,

~75-100 million active Firefox users, and you still think that “most popular…in most cases” is good enough to cut it for a ranking metric? It’s been a decade since I took statistics, but that seems like a pretty mean deviation ;)

No matter how long we pick at this, the Web isn’t meant for comparative metrics.

]]> By: Bushido http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html/comment-page-1#comment-28951 Bushido Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:23:08 +0000 http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/07/the-problem-with-measuring-time-spent-on-a-web-site.html#comment-28951 I don't think that the number of users that use a tab based browser compares to those who don't. Numbers still tell us (in most cases) that internet explorer 6.0 is most popular. This may, however change in the future. I don’t think that the number of users that use a tab based browser compares to those who don’t. Numbers still tell us (in most cases) that internet explorer 6.0 is most popular. This may, however change in the future.

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