8 Tips for Avoiding an SEO Fraudster

Gregg, some great advice in there. SEO is not about “gaming” search engines, but a cohesive marketing strategy that aligns with industry trends and resonates with the target audience for a website. Thanks for sharing your learnings.

Add to the list:

Do not accept any SEO consulting services that cold calls you, asking for their help.

On a larger note, in the end good SEO isn’t about chasing algorithms. Good SEO is about ethically and honestly beating your competition. The algorithm isn’t the competition, your normal business competitor is.

Do a better job at SEO than they are doing…even if both of you are terrible at SEO, and you’ll still come up first no matter what the algorithm is.

(This assumes that no one is better than the two of you…so if all are terrible, as long as you are the least terrible, you still “win” so to speak. So the algorithm isn’t what we are competing with…it is our business competition. Yes, knowing how SE’s work is helpful…no getting around that, but you get the point I am sure.)

Hi Greg,
Thanks for pointing out some good advise for finding a reputable SEO, or at least for spotting not so reputable ones.

I did want to touch on one of your points in #5 where you said “If he/she seems overly focused on inbound links, move on.”

I’m not sure that would be a good point to give to people searching for an SEO company or consultant. If the client’s web site lacks backlinks as opposed to their competitors, who may be swimming in sufficient and well placed backlinks, then I would imagine that inbound links would be a very valid and majority focus point on improving the client’s visibility.

Let’s face it – without solid backlinks the rest of your #5 you mention that is important (“implementing a strategy that makes people want to come to your site and stay there”) will be a mute point if the traffic is barely counted on one hand because link building was never the focus.

Perhaps a better focal point for the SEO would be to put effort into strategic link building relationships with verticals and other areas to promote targeted traffic for the client rather than just building standard links.

Greg, while much of the information in your list is accurate, the post overall rubbed me the wrong way. It seems like you’re blasting most of the SEO industry and then hedging your bets with your last point.

Nice post overall. But I think it may have gone a but too far in a couple points. 5 & 7, I have seen some sites that have it all ok but the little things like duplicate titles, so all I would focus on is title tag espically at first, later we would move to other things. Like the post just wanted to add that, as you know all “rules” are meant to be broken, I think all post have excepations too.

No need any SEO master, you can search infos and try and apply

Greg, I definitely think there are SEOs who should seek partnerships etc.

Personally, I’ve gotten out of consultancy to work on my own projects but one thing that I miss is the variety that consultancy offers. It’s not always easy to focus on one project.

BTW, the dishonest, milk em for all their worth and then dump em, provide no real value, type SEO’s are worthless and deserve to be outed. I just don’t think broad generalizations about the entire industry help things much.

Hello, can somebody tell my where i can find a seo tool which can show me the positions from a website (5, 10, 20 Keywords)? Please give feedback to me. bye

I generally agree with the thrust of the article but not all points. I agree that a large number of SEOs clearly are not at the cutting edge and don’t know it. Perhaps they only work in noncompetitive niches and have had a good run with the old tactics.

I don’t perform SEO anymore but teach the subject professionally and SEO my own sites, having worked on nearly 2000 sites belonging to others. Cold-calling is sometimes necessary and real businesses are not surprised to get a sales call – many of them also do it from time to time. Luckily, my last employer had a large subscriber base, so we didn’t need to cold call often.

My salespeople were careful not to “teach SEO” to prospects who kept asking detailed questions. e.g. It is fine to ask about links, but asking how many links and from which specific sites is asking too much before the sale.

There is a small niche that wants to learn and they like calling every SEO they can find to see if there is a pattern they can discern. While there is little risk of them really learning everything, they waste time if they don’t want to pay for SEO.

I totally agree that the best SEO experts are not consulting others. It takes time and hard work to find at least some aspects of great SEO and it’s far more profitable for any given SEO expert to simply continue making money on their own website than sharing this information with thousands of others.

Hmm .. been thinking about #3 and I’m not sure I agree. If I were a whizz mechanic; it doesn’t necessarily imply that I would start up a car hire business, on the basis that I can fix my own cars. In the same way, an “SEO expert” can make a better career by managing websites from clients, rather than building websites he can earn residual income from. Does that make sense?

I agree with all the above points. However, i feel the reason there are so many shady agencies out there is that the general public just doesn’t understand the ins and outs of SEO or any of online marketing for that matter. We as an industry have done a crappy job of educating businesses on why SEO/Online Marketing can benefit their business. As a business owner/sales person/client strategist, i spend a great deal of my time educating prospects on how this entire online marketing thing works. I try and push them in the direction that is going to make the most sense based on their overall goals and objectives. Sometimes SEO is the right thing to do and sometimes it’s not.

I also put blame on the general public for treating online marketing as something they just have to do but don’t know why or how they should do it. I get calls all the time, “can you just optimize my site?” Sure! but what are you trying to achieve. Of course everyone says rankings. but we all know that ranking don’t mean sh*t if the website sucks and doesn’t convert anyone. We try and provide a comprehensive strategy to accomplish their goals but at the end of the day what do most businesses look for….CHEAPEST PRICE! They don’t understand the value of the investment they are making. They think it’s like being back in the late 90′s and just buying a website because their competitor had one. They don’t take the time to understand the investment they are making. So of course the shady companies that have the cheap pricing are going to be all over those businesses. They are going to give them crappy service and ultimately make them leave. Which makes it 10 times harder for a legitimate agency to pick them up as a client because now they are skeptical.

In my opinion, you just have to educate the prospects as much as you can with out giving away to much. Do what you think is in their best interest and hope they can see that. At the end of the day you will probably lose more clients then you gain by doing this but the clients you do bring on will probably stick with you for the long haul.

One last thing, us as marketers who do this everyday take for granted that the ones we are talking to understand all the terminology we use. THEY DON’T! When talking with prospects you have to break this stuff down to a 3rd grade level. You have to really put yourself in their position. It’s almost like when you had to explain to your parents or grand parents what you do for a living.

Z

I agree with the fact that tenure has NOTHING (ok it has a little to do with) expertise in SEO. Just cause you could use Meta keywords and comment stuffing 9 years ago doesn’t mean you know doodly squat about what is going on today with the impact of personalized, universal, ask 3d, etc. SEOMOZ had a good post about questions to ask an SEO to see if they are any good: http://www.seomoz.org/blog/answer-these-ten-questions-before-you-charg e-for-seo-services

Perfect article! Right in every single way.

I’m one of the #3 guys, and yes if you structure your deals correctly with the right accounts, and you deliver, there’s no looking back….what’s that crap about “cheapest price”…you’re going for the wrong accounts dude…of course if you suck, that’s what you’re stuck with.

I might add one more perfect indicator that the SEO doesn’t know what he’s doing. Google Analytics. Anyone that works their butt off optimizing a site and then puts spyware on the backend to deliver all the effective keywords to the Google keyword suggestion tool needs their friggin head examined.

geez, sorry Greg. where did I get “andy” from? Good article.

I on the other hand totally agree with SEO GURU as posted here http://massa.techndu.com/2007/09/24/GettingBitchSlappedByTheGuruOUCHTh atsGottaHurt.aspx and think that you are doing waaaaaay more harm to the seo biz on a whole then good.

Hi teeceo, Is that the same person who got caught spamming Google and then sued Google because he got caught?

There is tooo much wrong information out there. The general public has no clue as to what is a good thing…. techniques and SEO’s.

hmm. What is very revealing is the fact that so many people on sphinn.com also think that article is good. This certainly makes one of the points of Greg’s article in that only 10% of SEO’s are whitehat. The rest are either blackhat OR cater to blackhats. There is one more group however; the group who is being led astray without the proper knowledge. Many web designers fall into this group because of all the bad articles and bad information out there.

Hey John; the next time you mention me at sphinn.com, I’d appreciate it if you would spell my name right; “Doug Heil”, and not “Doug Hail”. Thanks a bunch. I love it that I’m mentioned so don’t worry about that, but just spell it right next time. Thanks.

A rant? I didn’t see it that way at all. It’s the state of this industry. I see it as more “fact” than anything else. It’s not just the bad SEO’s, but it’s the people in the industry who “cater” to those same bad SEO’s, and tout them, and praise them. That’s the beef among many “in my circle”.

Also; it’s very revealing that Massa’s bashing article of “this” article gets “sphinned” by many members of sphinn with NO comments as to why. This tells the entire industry what types of members are the majority at sphinn, right?

People are afraid to look in the mirror and fear that “this” article is talking about them….. notice how Greg stated that he has tried outsourcing SEO to some firms in this industry who are good at “promoting” themselves, but he wasn’t happy with the results. What does that tell everyone? I know what it tells me. I’m thinking that many don’t like this article because it hits home a bit…. either that or they are very insecure.

No I don’t John. I do see you as always standing behind “whoever” is against me though. LOL I’m not a follower at all…never will be.

Anyway; I really and truly believe the 10% figure is very correct. I really do. It’s not getting better over the last ten years either…but getting worse. If you think about it, it only makes sense as SEO is something that littlejoeandsally can get into by throwing up a little blog now and claiming “SEO consultation” expertise. It’s just too easy.

As far as the title of Greg’s article and “fraudster’s”?…. yeah, over the top a bit. It could be worded differently.

You have to admit John that this industry if truly only looking after each member in this industry…. good or bad. WHO the heck knows who is actually good? We don’t know so how does the public know? How do they find out? They only find out when they hire a firm. There are too many people in our industry who just don’t care who they take money from for advertising, and who they promote on their blogs and sites, and who they tout as experts, etc,…. when they really have NO CLUE if these people are good or not. The industry is in such a bad state of affairs. It’s really bad.

I read an article you wrote John on your blog a few weeks back. I remember it about the Google guidelines or something. I LOVED what you wrote totally and agreed with it totally. I think the biggest problem with people in this industry is that they want to be seen rubbing shoulders with the elites, etc, even if those people have VERY different self-interests, etc. Many people only wish to gain monies from other firms in this industry through advertising, and in many cases do NOT do any SEO work or consulting whatsoever. Those are the types that our industry seems to want to be seen with…. something that is truly incredible to many of us.

Anyway; Greg’s experiences are not uncommon at all and are very much the norm. The industry wonders why it has the bad reputation, but it’s very, very clear as to why.

Thanks for clarifying your position, Andy.

Doug, I disagree with you on most counts. Every industry has meetings about “reputation management” because it’s smart to manage that as a group, and there are always detractors. Those who bad mouth an industry as a whole are problems for everyone, especially if they are not held accountable for their claims. Consumers are easily misled (look how well QuackWatch ranks in Google for just about everything that’s not AMA-sanctioned and Pharma-supported). It’s SOOOO easy to highlight negative aspects and lead from the back. Skeptics are easy prey. It’s hard to lead from the front. Education is expensive, but ignorance is more expensive.

SEO is largely good webmastering, almost comletely accountable to metrics, and highly specialized. I find it very easy to test the caliber of an SEO, just as I can evaluate a designer or coder or database admin (or alarm installer or landscaper or crew candidate for a regatta).

If you really care about the clients, educate them about picking an SEO (checklists, questions to ask, signs to watch for) instead of saying that 90% of them are frauds. That approach hurts everyone. Educating the world about SEO helps everyone. So what’s the problem?

Okay, so “your industry is full of incompetence and worse. As others have pointed out, that is true for almost any industry, and I agree.”

I get it. Everyone is incompetent, not just SEOs. Okay. Nothing further to discuss.

Its little stupidass hating like that on others in the game that give the whole seo game a bad name. Tell you what “Andy Beal” and “Greg Howlett” if “90% of SEOs are either crooked OR incompetent” then either of you point out even one of these people who you believe is either “crooked OR incompetent” from the list I will create of what I think is a list of the finest bunch of seo’s on the planet. Ready……

DaveN
Oilman
seo guru
WebGuerrilla
“Aaron Wall” A.K.A. seobook
danny sullivan
“Roger Montti” A.K.A. martinibuster
“MICHAEL GRAY” A.K.A. Graywolf
stuntdubl
Sugarrae
“Kristopher Jones” CEO of pepperjamsearch

For my money those are some of the top seo’s in the game and I personally have gotten some great tips from most of the people on that list so you guys “Andy Beal” and “Greg Howlett” if %90 of seo’s are “crooked OR incompetent” then by all means point out any and all from “THAT LIST” that you think fit the bill of “crooked OR incompetent” Go ahead, we are all wait:)………….

P.S. “who am I you ask, I am a online business man that has made over 1 million dollors for myself and business partner over the last few years with NO client money to back us and very little PC skill’s to start with (myself I am speaking about) so yea, lets see who you pick:).

Barry Tubwell.
COO, OM Solutions.

I was not asking you Doug. “Andy Beal” and “Greg Howlett” go ahead and pick from that list all that apply to your %90 “crooked OR incompetent” statement plase and don’t get anyone else here to post FOR YOU as you are the one(s) saying those comments so pick some names:).

“We have hired for short periods of time some of the top names in the industry, but have in general, been disappointed.” I just listed a list of “some of the top names in the industry” but I see your not going to touch that list are you:). Well lets end this blog post on a good note then since you won’t back up your words about the %90, will you atleast throw your support around any of the people on my list this way other clients out that are in need of good seo’s but don’t want your services can have a good recommendation of some great seo’s in the biz?

I was irritated when I read point #1 but as I read on, it balanced out and overall I agree with it.

But website owners themselves propagate ‘Bad SEO’ just as they propagate bad service providers in any industry with their constant search for cheap cheap cheap.

A website my company designed won awards and I started off some SEO for them. Next minute they had ‘shopped around’ and found an SEO Company that charges £28 a month for a full ongoing service.

This company made a mess of the homepage, totally abused the title tag using phrases that arent used in the UK and ‘submit to search engines on an ongoing basis’.

Enough said!

Anyone can throw stones. Stop bitching about what others do badly and concentrate on providing an ethical service yourself. If you truly do a good job, your results will speak for themselves, your clients will return and you will get word of mouth recommendations. Who cares what the guy up the road is doing? As for the businesses out there that get suckered in, that’s not your fault either! They either have more money than sense or just no business sense at all!

I have to agree with ctabuk that there are lots of forums where the expert SEOs do share their methods. WPW (where I am also a moderator) is one example; Webmasterworld also has some very knowledgeable experts who share openly – and there are others such as Jill Whelan and Andy Beal who are open with their methods. Perhaps they do keep *some* secrets — I know I do .

I would have thought it’s the Black Hats who are least likely to share.

And where’s the warning to steer clear of SEOs who offer money back guarantees …

LOL Ben. Have to disagree with you almost “totally”. Teecho’s list isn’t even in the ballpark, and it is a bad start.

it’s a pity that i just came across this article right now!nowadays SEO selection is quite hard, but not harder than picking any other consultant.

Thanks for this nice information….

thanks, great article.

Even the position of a SEO in the search engines must not be a criterium. Many have very good rankings because they made investitions in buyed links.

I think over all it is a good summary on “howto find out about seo skills”.

I think SEO is more then just on- and off-page optimization. Everyone has to make it’s own master-plan regarding to his business: which products are sold?, keyword analysis (single and long-tail) and longtime trusted link-building. With every Algo-Update Searchengines are a bit better on how to find links that cannot be trusted. Be a good guy and don’t practise black-seo

I can only admit with Seo Smart. Working with clean methods and trus links is the much better and longer lasting way than blackhat.

PsychicSeoberatung’s last blog post..Der Glückspfennig – heute waren es 2 Cent

#8 “SEO is still a far better investment than CPC for most industries.”
It’s true, at least for me. CPC are to expensive for me, doing some basic SEO could help my site

Busby SEO’s last blog post..By: chodirin

Unfortunately it�s not new that some seos are using black hat methods.

I see that many “seo” specialists only use spam to dominate the serps…

A good seo won´t promise anything for too small budget. (I was there unfortunately)

SEO Fraudster = Grey and black Hat!