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	<title>Comments on: Cup of Joe: Transparency is Killing Ad Profits.</title>
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		<title>By: Luci</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83446</link>
		<dc:creator>Luci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83446</guid>
		<description>I agree with Sage, i often find it interesting/amusing/horrifying the amounts that people will spend in offline advertising, but when it comes to their online campaign, it&#039;s a drop in the proverbial ocean. And the reason is usually to &#039;see how it goes&#039; - while this make sense, it also.. doesn&#039;t. LIke the more you spend on your ad space, the more you spend on seo for example is worth it longer term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Sage, i often find it interesting/amusing/horrifying the amounts that people will spend in offline advertising, but when it comes to their online campaign, it&#8217;s a drop in the proverbial ocean. And the reason is usually to &#8217;see how it goes&#8217; &#8211; while this make sense, it also.. doesn&#8217;t. LIke the more you spend on your ad space, the more you spend on seo for example is worth it longer term.</p>
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		<title>By: Sage Lewis</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83438</link>
		<dc:creator>Sage Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83438</guid>
		<description>I am always blown away by the huge double standard of offline vs. online media spend. Online media spend gets nickle and dimed and offline gets a snow blower full of money thrown at it.

Part of the problem is time. Our industry is still young and needs to build a brand of value.

Another problem isn&#039;t that offline is charging too much. Online is charging too little. This whole auction marketplace where the advertisers decide what a cost per click is worth is too efficient. It works too well for the advertisers. 

Major, high traffic, phrases should have a base per click cost of, say, $20/click. Google could do that tomorrow because they own the market. Advertisers would have to pay it. And then the entire industry would move up a notch. That would become the standard.

Small businesses would be pushed out of that market. But they could still be given niche phrases that are placed in the no-base open bidding environment.
.-= Sage Lewis´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.webmarketingwatch.com/video/2009/09/14/getting-ready-for-my-paid-search-panel/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Getting Ready For My Paid Search Panel&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am always blown away by the huge double standard of offline vs. online media spend. Online media spend gets nickle and dimed and offline gets a snow blower full of money thrown at it.</p>
<p>Part of the problem is time. Our industry is still young and needs to build a brand of value.</p>
<p>Another problem isn&#8217;t that offline is charging too much. Online is charging too little. This whole auction marketplace where the advertisers decide what a cost per click is worth is too efficient. It works too well for the advertisers. </p>
<p>Major, high traffic, phrases should have a base per click cost of, say, $20/click. Google could do that tomorrow because they own the market. Advertisers would have to pay it. And then the entire industry would move up a notch. That would become the standard.</p>
<p>Small businesses would be pushed out of that market. But they could still be given niche phrases that are placed in the no-base open bidding environment.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Sage Lewis´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.webmarketingwatch.com/video/2009/09/14/getting-ready-for-my-paid-search-panel/" rel="nofollow">Getting Ready For My Paid Search Panel</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Greg Satell</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83411</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Satell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83411</guid>
		<description>Joe,

Your post wasn&#039;t boring, just not particularly accurate.

 Advertisers certainly demand transparency and traditional media is thoroughly researched through not only industry wide monitoring but also through ongoing tracking studies that are proprietary to individual advertisers.

Moreover, there are some very good reasons why advertisers are willing to pay more for branded content than for user generated content.  You can read about some of them here: http://www.digitaltonto.com/archives/67

-Greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe,</p>
<p>Your post wasn&#8217;t boring, just not particularly accurate.</p>
<p> Advertisers certainly demand transparency and traditional media is thoroughly researched through not only industry wide monitoring but also through ongoing tracking studies that are proprietary to individual advertisers.</p>
<p>Moreover, there are some very good reasons why advertisers are willing to pay more for branded content than for user generated content.  You can read about some of them here: <a href="http://www.digitaltonto.com/archives/67" rel="nofollow">http://www.digitaltonto.com/archives/67</a></p>
<p>-Greg</p>
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		<title>By: Aoobi</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83406</link>
		<dc:creator>Aoobi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 02:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83406</guid>
		<description>I know that traditional media had a real succes in the past but now… no way that can be used against the new media.
.-= Aoobi´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://fashionow.net/wordpress/2009/09/11/the-introduction-of-opal/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Introduction of Opal&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that traditional media had a real succes in the past but now… no way that can be used against the new media.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Aoobi´s last blog ..<a href="http://fashionow.net/wordpress/2009/09/11/the-introduction-of-opal/" rel="nofollow">The Introduction of Opal</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Larry D Keen</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83383</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry D Keen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 09:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83383</guid>
		<description>The money trail will always win. When twitter gets in the mix, I think it will start a new trail. I think it is smart for them to get the entire globe hooked, then monetize the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The money trail will always win. When twitter gets in the mix, I think it will start a new trail. I think it is smart for them to get the entire globe hooked, then monetize the system.</p>
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		<title>By: jardenberg kommenterar &#8211; 2009-09-13 — jardenberg unedited</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83375</link>
		<dc:creator>jardenberg kommenterar &#8211; 2009-09-13 — jardenberg unedited</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 04:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83375</guid>
		<description>[...] Cup of Joe: Transparency is Killing Ad Profits. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cup of Joe: Transparency is Killing Ad Profits. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Oscar Del Santo</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83366</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscar Del Santo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83366</guid>
		<description>I think there is hopefully room for both approaches to advertising to co-exist and develop independetly of each other.
.-= Oscar Del Santo´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://strategyweb.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/pr-seo/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PR &amp; SEO : Together We Stand&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is hopefully room for both approaches to advertising to co-exist and develop independetly of each other.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Oscar Del Santo´s last blog ..<a href="http://strategyweb.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/pr-seo/" rel="nofollow">PR &amp; SEO : Together We Stand</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Poze Nunti</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83365</link>
		<dc:creator>Poze Nunti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:47:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83365</guid>
		<description>I know that traditional media had a real succes in the past but now... no way that can be used against the new media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that traditional media had a real succes in the past but now&#8230; no way that can be used against the new media.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83358</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83358</guid>
		<description>@Byrne - But what makes traditional media so much money is the fact that they are thriving on wasted ad dollars. If internet marketers make it possible for advertisers to not waste any money, they will never make a profit even if ad sales increase on the long term.
.-= Joe Hall´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jozsoft.com/whostalkin/whostalkincom-moves-to-media-temple/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;WhosTalkin.com Moves To Media Temple!&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Byrne &#8211; But what makes traditional media so much money is the fact that they are thriving on wasted ad dollars. If internet marketers make it possible for advertisers to not waste any money, they will never make a profit even if ad sales increase on the long term.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Joe Hall´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.jozsoft.com/whostalkin/whostalkincom-moves-to-media-temple/" rel="nofollow">WhosTalkin.com Moves To Media Temple!</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Byrne</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83354</link>
		<dc:creator>Byrne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83354</guid>
		<description>Maybe that&#039;s true

But if it is, it won&#039;t last.

I know this, because I know lots of people who have come to the same realization you have. And I know what they say next.

What they say is: &quot;Why should I spend so much money on traditional media, if I don&#039;t know exactly what I&#039;m getting, but I know I&#039;m not getting much?&quot;

I usually say &quot;Good point!&quot; (and not just because I sell online marketing services).

No matter what you&#039;re advertising--whether it&#039;s sandwiches, soap, or supersonic jets--the rules are the same: the more you tell, the more you sell. Old media don&#039;t tell you much, but they sell a lot of ads because they have a lot of momentum. New media outlets can&#039;t afford to behave that way, so they tell their advertisers everything they can, which is why they keep growing.

In the short run, Facebook is losing money. But they&#039;ve raised over $700 million so they can keep on losing money until it makes sense to flip the sell-hard switch, crank up their advertising, and start practically minting money.
.-= Byrne´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.byrnehobart.com/blog/the-typo-test-do-typos-ruin-online-copy-im-going-to-find-out/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Typo Test: Do Typos Ruin Online Copy? I’m Going to Find Out&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe that&#8217;s true</p>
<p>But if it is, it won&#8217;t last.</p>
<p>I know this, because I know lots of people who have come to the same realization you have. And I know what they say next.</p>
<p>What they say is: &#8220;Why should I spend so much money on traditional media, if I don&#8217;t know exactly what I&#8217;m getting, but I know I&#8217;m not getting much?&#8221;</p>
<p>I usually say &#8220;Good point!&#8221; (and not just because I sell online marketing services).</p>
<p>No matter what you&#8217;re advertising&#8211;whether it&#8217;s sandwiches, soap, or supersonic jets&#8211;the rules are the same: the more you tell, the more you sell. Old media don&#8217;t tell you much, but they sell a lot of ads because they have a lot of momentum. New media outlets can&#8217;t afford to behave that way, so they tell their advertisers everything they can, which is why they keep growing.</p>
<p>In the short run, Facebook is losing money. But they&#8217;ve raised over $700 million so they can keep on losing money until it makes sense to flip the sell-hard switch, crank up their advertising, and start practically minting money.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Byrne´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.byrnehobart.com/blog/the-typo-test-do-typos-ruin-online-copy-im-going-to-find-out/" rel="nofollow">The Typo Test: Do Typos Ruin Online Copy? I’m Going to Find Out</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Oscar Del Santo</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83346</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscar Del Santo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83346</guid>
		<description>Definitely not boring at all. 

I think it is also essential to highlight the different philosophies underpining each model, the &#039;one-size-fits-all&#039; of traditional advertising and the more closely- targeted, often &#039;long-tail&#039; online model.

In any case, does this tell us anything about the need to upgrade the levels of quality, creativity and even the budgets in online advertising?
.-= Oscar Del Santo´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://strategyweb.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/revoluciontwitter/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tweetdeck y Seeismic: cuando Twitter se enamoró de Facebook&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely not boring at all. </p>
<p>I think it is also essential to highlight the different philosophies underpining each model, the &#8216;one-size-fits-all&#8217; of traditional advertising and the more closely- targeted, often &#8216;long-tail&#8217; online model.</p>
<p>In any case, does this tell us anything about the need to upgrade the levels of quality, creativity and even the budgets in online advertising?<br />
<span class="cluv"> Oscar Del Santo´s last blog ..<a href="http://strategyweb.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/revoluciontwitter/" rel="nofollow">Tweetdeck y Seeismic: cuando Twitter se enamoró de Facebook</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/09/cup-of-joe-transparency-is-killing-ad-profits.html/comment-page-1#comment-83343</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 14:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/?p=12854#comment-83343</guid>
		<description>Not boring at all... maybe obvious, a little frustrated, but not boring. Traditional media also has done a good job of selling the positive benefit of long-term branding.
.-= Mike´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/tradeseo/~3/Al-NCgOdgV0/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Weight Loss Postcard&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not boring at all&#8230; maybe obvious, a little frustrated, but not boring. Traditional media also has done a good job of selling the positive benefit of long-term branding.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Mike´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/tradeseo/~3/Al-NCgOdgV0/" rel="nofollow">Weight Loss Postcard</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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